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    06/29/2012

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    Firedrake

    I think the thing that is broken - by my standards - in the backbiters and the political climbers is... that they don't care whether the overall job gets done. (I've met this more in a work context where at least there is an overall job to be done, and everyone will know and agree on whether or not it has been. In the context of a church, or a War on Abstract Concepts, the job will never be completed and nor can it ever be given up on, so there's no possibility of its ever ending, so it can never be declared a success or a failure.)

    To the politician, it doesn't matter whether the work succeeds or fails, as long as the politician looks better than the other people who were doing it.

    Good fortune. By which I mean not "hey, hope it goes well" - though I most certainly do! - but "I think you have the guts to do the stuff you need to do; I hope the stuff you don't control stays at least vaguely sensible while you're doing it".

    Kellandros

    I must say, you have pulled together a startlingly good amount of self-knowledge. I'm glad you appear to have mostly managed to move out of the shadow of that much bad environment.

    I'm both curious and afraid to see where the next part leads- it sounds like you will have gone through some more bad times trying to shed old behaviors.

    Lisa

    I think that the idea of of not trusting anyone does more damage in the long run because it makes one incapable of trusting anyone outside of the church as well. They don't have the "holy spirit" therefore they are not to be trusted. Imagine - leaving the church and not being able to trust anyone in the whole wide world. That is the gift of the evangelical church to its children - it cuts them off from everyone. As for being able to hear God - I can't negate the faith of others who claim to hear God because I do not. I also do not believe that I could get in the way if God spoke to me. The forced "hear God or you don't have enough faith" attitude of the many churches raises faith to the level of a competition instead of a unique experience for each individual. It leads individuals to be dishonest about their experience in order to fit in, to not be shunned, and ultimately because they fear they do not have enough faith. Your right - when it comes to faith failure is not an option. Your experience is equally as valid and truthful as any other. The evangelical church wants to wring their idea of faith out of its members. It is manipulative, coercive, and ultimately does not lead anyone to any kind of growth - spiritual or human.

    Firedrake

    Lisa, I think it's notable that pretty much all cults make a point of cutting off the new member from opportunities to socialise outside the cult. Whether it's a pressure not to trust outsiders or simply taking up all of someone's free time, it's a very strong pressure not to leave.

    I do think that some forms of evangelical Christianity must be considered as cults.

    jessa

    I, apparently, was an uninitiated sap for my entire Evangelical tenure. Of course, I was overly earnest and honest in a lot of ways at that time, jumping with both feet into anything that might possibly help me.

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